ShotZombies

Can I feed him to a beautiful wild Civet? – that was fun.

I once asked a person behind the bar of a legendary cafe what was the difference between a Barista and a Barman (man in this case is latin for “hand”). He said “about 3 bucks an hour”. Enjoy

I love the subject line here–quite apt.

I don't know Cho – 200c seems a little hot to me, no?

E Meter

http://www.anti-scientologie.ch/images18/blue-e…

Mr. “Beware the expensive espresso machine” guy just put two (2) Synessos in his shop in Philly. No doubt paid for by his Esquire blood money. Douche-bagsaywhat? Go back to your restaurant coffee graveyard, Todd. Blech.

Todd, with all due respect, you seem woefully uneducated when it comes to both thermodynamics as well as rules/regs about “organic.” Natural gas, is not considered a processing aid under the USDA NOP. The byproducts of Natural Gas combustion are C02 and water vapor which is permitted by the USDA NOP and OMRI and has no bearing on the “organic-ness” of a certified-organic food product.

Secondly, exactly how are you “testing” microroasters coffee products for the unspent fuel from natural gas consumption? Actually chemically extracting the C02 and water vapor (which, BTW, are the only byproducts of natural gas combustion) or are you able to taste the C02 and additional water vapor which would be absorbed by the coffee beans (call it a low rent quench)?

Mark Inman
Taylor Maid Farms
Organic Coffee
Sonoma, CA

Mark… this is what I'm driving at. You are a hard worker, and organic is important, and sure, maybe I am “woefully uneducated”, yet here is what scientific papers have to say..

“.. most coffee beans which are roasted with flame gases are bathed in the combustion gases and as a consequence take up a part of the deleterious combustion gases, especially H2S. Such adhering gases cannot be completely removed by an airing lasting 8-10 hours and more. “

Further more, unregulated gas burners rarely burn 100% of all gas. In such case, un-burned fuel is allowed contact with the bean. Therfore, along with the H2S's, the product can be considered contaminated.

Mike – there is loads of research available outside of the coffee blogs. The question isn’t “is this a fact” the question is, “can it be a fact and what are the implications”? This should be a major topic with in you “community” – and it will. My research shows a great deal, and we have been managing our “burn” for 16 years, I have loads. The first time I saw it mentioned “out there” was a tiny comment made by Phil Robertson in 2009. At that time, I thought it would explode into wide spread conversation, but it went nowhere. No one seemed to pick up on it. Before that no one would accept any of my posts, so I said screw it. You should begin your research by Googling his name and Hydrogen Sulfide. Note that the amounts have a great deal to do with gas pressure (low pressure is bad) and the micro roaster almost always uses low pressure. Once you get that far, you need to look at the total burn % of any burner, and how to control it. No burner unregulated burns 100%. Where does that fuel go? When you find what that fuel contains, you will panic. I know where it goes because the bean is not a closed system, especially when introduced to heat.

Now, do you really want Nick Cho to be the spokesman? There are several other topics of this grade and you really need to have a person who is total up to speed. (BTW if you speak French, the name is Cho is ironic. Sorry, I can’t help myself)

Hydrogen sulfide (or hydrogen sulphide) is the chemical compound with the formula H2S. It is a colorless, very poisonous, flammable gas with the characteristic foul odor of rotten eggs. It often results from the bacterial breakdown of organic matter in the absence of oxygen, such as in swamps and sewers (anaerobic digestion). It also occurs in volcanic gases, natural gas, and some well waters. The human body produces small amounts of H2S and uses it as a signaling molecule.

K – in the mean time – google it. You'll find more than you need. Start with (spelled wrong) “Gas Roasters and Hydrogen Sulfied”. In the mean time, I'll link you to the best stuff. I know I have an annoying voice – and can come off all wrong – but really, what are the implications for Organic Coffee, noting that H2S is a deadly compound. Should we address it before it is noticed outside?
Inglorious Bastard

These guys touch on it: smart cats

Juris Meija, Joshua M. Bryson, Anne P. Vonderheide, Maria Montes-Bayón, and Joseph A. Caruso*
Department of Chemistry, University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati, Ohio 45221-0172

Its just a start but the thread is wide. I'll let you guys rock this for a while without me – keep an eye on unspent fuel, indeed, with the added compounds. Note what happens when the fuel “steams away” and what compounds are left. Put the energy you put into other topics, and you'll nail it for sure. Meanwhile, I may piss off the fringe a bunch more with my writing, but I can address any issues with them here if you don't mind. I'm available.

Refractometers are designed to supplement, not replace, the human tongue, and increase the consistency with which one can provide desirable taste profiles. What meter did you use to analyze the unspent fuel in the samples you tested?

Yeah funny. It's a shame that you can't help yourself.

Blah-blah-blah-blah. For someone who blogged on Esquire about wanting coffee to be more 'manly,' you sure know how to blather on like a schoolgirl.

All I've heard from anyone is what has amounted to an editorial pissing match and some childish name calling. No one has acknowledged the fact that Mr. Carmichael has 1, built a successful business that isn't going anywhere anytime soon and 2, actually has some relevant things to say about the coffee experience and the cafe experience in general. If all there was to the experience is what's in the cup, and his coffee is as bad as you all say it is, he wouldn't still be in business.

While I don't agree with his associating gender with a simple beverage, nor do I agree with many of his broad statements about his own employees and the technical aspects of espresso, I do think he has some relevant opinions on what customer service is and how we should be experiencing coffee. That's not to say I think his cafes and employees are the model of service, I would argue that they are as trendy and rude as the baristas he criticizes, but instead of wasting everyone's time by trying to show how informed we all are, maybe we should engage in a meaningful conversation about the language of coffee and how our interactions with customers can make or break our business, regardless of the quality of the products we serve.

I disagree with Mr. Carmichael on many levels and I believe his business and product are simply different from the model of showcasing single-origin coffees that are made to order. All of this back and forth is avoiding the fundamental difference of opinion the specialty industry and La Colombe have. Todd's customers are not, and likely will never be the customers who want to sit and talk about the subtle nuances of a coffee, but the question we should be addressing is whether all customers who enjoy single-origin coffees really want to talk about the nuances or if its just us coffee geeks. And if it is, what is that doing for the experience of those customers who just enjoy the differences single-origin coffees offer. How can we connect with people who aren't coffee geeks, because in the end its not always the people who are the most vocal that make us profitable. In fact, I'd argue its the guy (or lady) who comes in every day and doesn't say more than 10 words to you and never leaves without tipping. And isn't that what we're all here for, to make a buck.

Nice! Agreed, my bar people always need improving – and reality checks now and then. As we all know, it's easy to forget that there is not a plexiglass wall between the customer and us. As for the “male” thing, it was written for Esquire – a dude mag, that's all. I was thinking about the audience.

I paid 6g's for these as everyone should. The 17g machine is a myth and someone is getting a deep pocket cash infusion if that lever was pulled. I address this too in a post I gave Mike.

Cho – give me a call. 215 426 2011 Todd

Todd,nnA few points:nn1) You present the H2S link as if it is a new finding, when in fact the levels of H2S in coffee were measured as far back as 1949 (Coffee Flavor Chemistry, p. 336). nn2) From wikipedia: “Since hydrogen sulfide occurs naturally in the body, the environment and the gut, enzymes exist in the body capable of detoxifying it by oxidation to (harmless) sulfate.[6] Hence, low levels of sulfide may be tolerated indefinitely . . . . At some threshold level, believed to average around 300u2013350 ppm, the oxidative enzymes become overwhelmed. ” The level of H2S in roasted coffee is 0.7-4.3, well below the threshold level.nn3) But all this talk of H2S is really beside the point, because in your article you totally ignore one of the main reasons behind organic farming practices, namely, that they help protect the health and natural environment of the farmers. Also, just because H2S is present in roasted coffee doesn’t mean that we may as well say fuck it and pack in all the other chemicals we can — actually, it argues for the opposite. nn4) If you’re so worried about H2S levels, why don’t you go electric?

Um, I was raised on a farm, I’m of farmer stock. I understand organic rather well. I also spend 8 weeks a year on coffee farms. I will also say that there is a way to rid the process of HRS and others … Without going electric. I know, I do it. Ask yourself, how does nat gas increase it’s BTU? spend 4k on a test of 5lbs of your bean just roasted – and what’s coming off of it then post your results here.

Todd:  Are you the guy who bankrolled Ripley Davenport to return to Mongolia and finish his long walk?